Sunday, February 28, 2010
Tea And Coffee: A Constitutional Republic VS The Tyranny Of The Mob
To understand our form of government is not hard. Read the Constitution and amendments usually is a pretty easy way to start. To respect and honor our form of government is obviousley not so easy, just look at progressives, the courts and local and state governments and the federal government. They backstab our founders seemingly at will.
The Coffee Party believes the middle is consensus. The Tea Party believes the middle is the Constitution.
The Constitution is not a living document. It is based in principle as the vision for the United States of America's future and the founders deplored the idea of the mob controlling America whether it was the tyranny of the large states stepping on the rights of smaller states, industrial over agriculture or large government crushing the liberty of individuals.
let's start a coffee party . . . smoothie party. red bull party. anything but tea. geez. ooh how about cappuccino party? that would really piss 'em off bec it sounds elitist . . . let's get together and drink cappuccino and have real political dialogue with substance and compassion.
Progress is patriotic, they tell the camera. Wake up. Espresso yourself. Something is brewing, America.
How about a Latte Liberal Party? Yes, progress is patriotic, but not all progress(ivism), only progress that fits within the Constitution.
About Us
We are diverse — ethnically, geographically, politically, in age and in experience.
We are 100% grassroots. No lobbyists here. No pundits. And no hyper-partisan strategists calling the shots in this movement. We are a spontaneous and collective expression of our desire to forge a culture of civic engagement that is solution-oriented, not blame-oriented.
Your web presence shows that you are 100% grassroots, eh? Sharing goals, venues and projects with MoveOn, Organizing for America, unions, MSM and others and your coming out of the gate with professional logos, videos, websites and all of you fellow groups pounding the intertoobs to create the sense of an overnight avalanche of support. You're so hyper-partisan and non spontaneous, it will be interesting to unravel your finances to see who has really been funding you from inception.
We demand a government that responds to the needs of the majority of its citizens as expressed by our votes and by our voices; NOT corporate interests as expressed by misleading advertisements and campaign contributions.
We want a society in which democracy is treated as sacrosanct and ordinary citizens participate out of a sense of civic duty, civic pride, and a desire to contribute to society. The Coffee Party is a call to action. Our Founding Fathers and Mothers gave us an enduring gift — Democracy — and we must use it to meet the challenges that we face as a nation.
Any group is the sum of its parts. The Coffee Party is growing quickly and absorbing a variety of views and opinions. The one thing we all agree on is that Government has to change… and we would like it to change for the better instead of rolling back to the last Century.
Demand all you want as long as those demands are within the Constitution which clearly lays out the reason and the form of our form of government.
Democracy may be sacrosanct somewhere, but not here. You will call it nitpicking, which belies an ignorance of governance, but the United States of America is a Republic which is quite different than the tyranny of Democracy's majority. Again, you can demand all you want concerning the needs of the majority (who decides those needs to be prioritized by the majority?) as witnessed by your votes and voices, but again, Constitution; Republic; Law.
Vienna, Va.: If you look at the recent Pew study on the Millennial Generation, that group is more progressive than the preceding generations. How are the Coffee Party Groups specifically reaching out to that cohort? They are really important.
Annabel Park: Great point, Vienna! The Millennial Generation, frankly, has a lot to teach the rest of us when comes to appreciation of diversity and a sense of collective identity that transcends the usual lines that divide us. We want to appeal to them to not only be involved, but to take on leadership. We are starting chapters on college campuses where students can come together to practice democracy as a community.
I'm sure one of your instantaneous grassroots support groups will help you with this. Maybe the NEA and the Department of Education?
We believe that, when the Millennial Generation steps up for our country's future, it will lead to profound changes in our politics.
Annabel Park: We want to shift the paradigm from thinking of politics as a zero-sum game with two opposing sides. If one side loses, the other side wins. This is not a democracy. This is a misunderstanding of the tenets of democracy.
And you misunderstand the tenets of the Republic of the United States of America.
Democracy is based on the notion of the common good. People should come together to go through a deliberation process to produce collective decisions that benefit the common good.
Here in our Republic that deliberation process is called elections. You'll see the process in action next November.
What would Abraham Lincoln suggest if he were living today? Would he be willing to sit down and have a cup of coffee and discuss our nations issues? I think so (just maybe not with me). After the Civil War, the North had won a significant battle. He did not tell the people to follow the rules of a zero sum game. He did not recommend that we obstruct democracy but that we be "flexible in our efforts."
Lincoln never stated that we should be "flexible in our efforts." If the Civil War was not a zero sum then Lincoln would have compromised and toned down the rhetoric with the Confederacy. The unconditional surrender of the Confederacy was definitely zero sum. One wins. One loses.
The snowballing response made her the de facto coordinator of Coffee Party USA, with goals far loftier than its oopsy-daisy origin: promote civility and inclusiveness in political discourse, engage the government not as an enemy but as the collective will of the people, push leaders to enact the progressive change for which 52.9 percent of the country voted in 2008.
Oopsy-daisy my butt and that 52.9% is evaporating as quickly as they find out who Obama is and that progressive is just another way to spell socialist.
Republic, constitution and law. Form, process and the way things must be done. Fairly damned simple for most people.
The Coffee Party believes the middle is consensus. The Tea Party believes the middle is the Constitution.
The Constitution is not a living document. It is based in principle as the vision for the United States of America's future and the founders deplored the idea of the mob controlling America whether it was the tyranny of the large states stepping on the rights of smaller states, industrial over agriculture or large government crushing the liberty of individuals.
let's start a coffee party . . . smoothie party. red bull party. anything but tea. geez. ooh how about cappuccino party? that would really piss 'em off bec it sounds elitist . . . let's get together and drink cappuccino and have real political dialogue with substance and compassion.
Progress is patriotic, they tell the camera. Wake up. Espresso yourself. Something is brewing, America.
How about a Latte Liberal Party? Yes, progress is patriotic, but not all progress(ivism), only progress that fits within the Constitution.
About Us
We are diverse — ethnically, geographically, politically, in age and in experience.
We are 100% grassroots. No lobbyists here. No pundits. And no hyper-partisan strategists calling the shots in this movement. We are a spontaneous and collective expression of our desire to forge a culture of civic engagement that is solution-oriented, not blame-oriented.
Your web presence shows that you are 100% grassroots, eh? Sharing goals, venues and projects with MoveOn, Organizing for America, unions, MSM and others and your coming out of the gate with professional logos, videos, websites and all of you fellow groups pounding the intertoobs to create the sense of an overnight avalanche of support. You're so hyper-partisan and non spontaneous, it will be interesting to unravel your finances to see who has really been funding you from inception.
We demand a government that responds to the needs of the majority of its citizens as expressed by our votes and by our voices; NOT corporate interests as expressed by misleading advertisements and campaign contributions.
We want a society in which democracy is treated as sacrosanct and ordinary citizens participate out of a sense of civic duty, civic pride, and a desire to contribute to society. The Coffee Party is a call to action. Our Founding Fathers and Mothers gave us an enduring gift — Democracy — and we must use it to meet the challenges that we face as a nation.
Any group is the sum of its parts. The Coffee Party is growing quickly and absorbing a variety of views and opinions. The one thing we all agree on is that Government has to change… and we would like it to change for the better instead of rolling back to the last Century.
Demand all you want as long as those demands are within the Constitution which clearly lays out the reason and the form of our form of government.
Democracy may be sacrosanct somewhere, but not here. You will call it nitpicking, which belies an ignorance of governance, but the United States of America is a Republic which is quite different than the tyranny of Democracy's majority. Again, you can demand all you want concerning the needs of the majority (who decides those needs to be prioritized by the majority?) as witnessed by your votes and voices, but again, Constitution; Republic; Law.
Vienna, Va.: If you look at the recent Pew study on the Millennial Generation, that group is more progressive than the preceding generations. How are the Coffee Party Groups specifically reaching out to that cohort? They are really important.
Annabel Park: Great point, Vienna! The Millennial Generation, frankly, has a lot to teach the rest of us when comes to appreciation of diversity and a sense of collective identity that transcends the usual lines that divide us. We want to appeal to them to not only be involved, but to take on leadership. We are starting chapters on college campuses where students can come together to practice democracy as a community.
I'm sure one of your instantaneous grassroots support groups will help you with this. Maybe the NEA and the Department of Education?
We believe that, when the Millennial Generation steps up for our country's future, it will lead to profound changes in our politics.
Annabel Park: We want to shift the paradigm from thinking of politics as a zero-sum game with two opposing sides. If one side loses, the other side wins. This is not a democracy. This is a misunderstanding of the tenets of democracy.
And you misunderstand the tenets of the Republic of the United States of America.
Democracy is based on the notion of the common good. People should come together to go through a deliberation process to produce collective decisions that benefit the common good.
Here in our Republic that deliberation process is called elections. You'll see the process in action next November.
What would Abraham Lincoln suggest if he were living today? Would he be willing to sit down and have a cup of coffee and discuss our nations issues? I think so (just maybe not with me). After the Civil War, the North had won a significant battle. He did not tell the people to follow the rules of a zero sum game. He did not recommend that we obstruct democracy but that we be "flexible in our efforts."
Lincoln never stated that we should be "flexible in our efforts." If the Civil War was not a zero sum then Lincoln would have compromised and toned down the rhetoric with the Confederacy. The unconditional surrender of the Confederacy was definitely zero sum. One wins. One loses.
The snowballing response made her the de facto coordinator of Coffee Party USA, with goals far loftier than its oopsy-daisy origin: promote civility and inclusiveness in political discourse, engage the government not as an enemy but as the collective will of the people, push leaders to enact the progressive change for which 52.9 percent of the country voted in 2008.
Oopsy-daisy my butt and that 52.9% is evaporating as quickly as they find out who Obama is and that progressive is just another way to spell socialist.
Republic, constitution and law. Form, process and the way things must be done. Fairly damned simple for most people.
Kos Guy Blackwaterdog Thinks America Racist, Yeah...
I don't think anyone was under some real illusion that the election of Barack Obama actually means the end of racism in America.
If they did they don’t understand humans.
I'm pretty sure that the president-elect knew it better than anyone. After all, he saw it every day, from the moment he announced his candidacy. To some degree, he saw it within his own party during the primaries. And he saw it in all ugliness during the general election. For half of this country, he was "That One". No matter how big and clear his victory was. No matter how smart he is. No matter how decent he is. No matter what a true patriot he is. No matter how optimistic and positive his vision for America was. All that didn't matter. Because at the end of the day, he was still black.
Over half the voters voted for him and I can with the same veracity as Blackwaterdog that those that opposed his election did so because they opposed his platform and who he was, not his skin color.
I'm quite old. I remember, vaguely, where my parents been on November 22, 1963. I've seen so many presidents. Some were feared, some were hated, some were adored, some popular and some not. But all of them, without exception, were treated with the highest respect deserve to the office of the president of the United States.
Highest respect? What crap. Both Bushs, Reagan and Nixon come to mind as not only not getting the “highest respect”, but were denigrated at every chance by their opponents and the media.
That is until a black man won the right to occupy this office. It's been 13 months now, and in the eyes of so many, Barack Obama is still that one. He is being disrespected and at the same time being held to the highest standard of any president I've ever seen – and not just by the Republican side. He has to perform three times better than any president in history, and even that may not be enough.
He is disrespected because of his disdain for others, his policies and his failure to achieve or resolve the problems we face. He is disdained because he has an agenda which is completely out of touch with the majority of the electorate. Can you say jobs?
For the media, he is many more times just "Obama" than "President Obama". They create scandals out of nothing issues. It took them at least 6 years to start giving Bush a small part of the shit he deserved. It took them 6 months to begin crap all over Obama because he's yet to fix the catastrophe that was left for him.
Whether the majority liked Bush or not they saw that he was focused on their priorities. Love the “highest respect” ole Blackwaterdog is showing the office of the President of the United States.
They use condescending tone when they talk about him, and only mildly less condescending when they talk TO him. With anyone else, CNN wouldn't dare go to commercials every time the president speaks, like they did during that summit on Thursday. They wouldn't dare counting how many minutes George Bush or Bill Clinton were talking. Chris Mathews wouldn't dare making an issue out of Ronald Regan calling members of congress by their first name, like he is not actually the freaking president. They fully cooperate with the Right-Wing smear machine when it comes to president Obama's national security performance – even if almost every independent and military expert actually thinks that he's a terrific Commander in Chief. You'll never see them on TV, and virtually no one from the Left, in congress and outside, defend the president on this matter.
This paragraph is so incoherent in light of the facts there is nowhere to begin, but one question might be, do you remember whether Clinton wore boxers or briefs?
I don't care about the Far-Right. They're just crazy ignorant Neanderthals. It's the way the beltway and the mainstream treats this president that is shocking. On Thursday, almost every Republican had no trouble interrupting him in the middle of a sentence. They looked like they're going to vomit every time they had to say "Mr. president". They all had this Eric-Cantor-Smirk whenever he spoke. Then they went out and started to spit their stupid talking points, to the delight of the media. Sarah Palin, a woman who can hardly read, thinks that he was "arrogant" towards John McCain, and somehow this is an important news. Because you see, "Obama's Arrogance" is the talking point of the day.
“Obama’s arrogance”? People might think that because they didn’t think his put down of McCain very dignified or respectful of the office of the presidency. They thought him petulant. To continue your love for the dignity of elected office, I hear Sarah Palin reads quite well, but I wouldn’t want you to think that I would compare your level of achievement to Gov. Palin’s as a measure of intellect. I am amazed at your acuity in being able to see that Republicans looked as if to vomit. That’s amazing.
Oh, those talking points. He is arrogant (because he knows the facts better than all of them combined). He is an elitist (because he uses big words that they don't understand). He is weak on national security (because he actually thinks about the consequences). He divides the country (well, he did that the day he had the audacity to win the election). Worst of all, he actually thinks that he's the president. He even dared to say so on Thursday. How arrogant of him. You'd think that previous presidents didn't have any ego. Somehow it turned out that the one president who treats even his biggest opponents with the utmost respect – is the arrogant one. I wonder why.
Knows facts better? How do you know that? Uses words that Republicans don’t understand? I’m sure you know that as fact. National security? Most Republicans see that as his bright spot. He divides the country by his audacity? Yep, but not because of your racist card toss. He should think he is president? Yep, he was elected. He’s the one president who treat his biggest opponents with the utmost respect? That is such a stupid statement I am sure you’ll winch that you made it once your rant wears off, but you wonder why he might feel this way and you answer it for him in your silent cry of RACISM?
I expected that his winning the Presidency would bring out some ugliness, but it's been far worse than i imagined. The racism coming from the Right is obviously clear and shameless, but there's also some hidden and maybe subconscious and disturbing underline tone behind some of the things that I read here and throughout the Left blogosphere, even before the end of Obama's first year - 'He's weak, he's spineless, he's got no balls, primary him in 2012'. It'll be dishonest to deny that.
'He's weak, he's spineless, he's got no balls, primary him in 2012.' That’s not what I am hearing from Republicans (you said that racism was clear and shameless in Republicans) and nor am I hearing that from Democrats that I know, work with socialize with. I do hear it from Progressives that think he betrayed their hopes and dreams, so, take that up with them.
The fact is that for millions in America, Barack Obama is this uppity black man (Not even a "real" black), who received good education only due to affirmative action, and has no right to litter the sacred Oval Office with his skin color. They just can't accept the fact that the president is a black man, who unlike his predecessor, was actually legally elected. But what's really sad is that it's not just the fringe, its deep deep in mainstream America.
Blackwaterdog, this paragraph shows how unhinged and scattered your thinking is. “Uppity”, “affirmative action”, “litter” “actually legally elected” and “mainstream America”? You are “deep, deep" (ly) disassociated with mainstream America and this proves it. Unlike mainstream America you allow pure hatred and rage flow through you words and thoughts choosing to throw reality to the gutter as useless.
Barack Obama's ability to remain above all this slob, to keep his optimism and his strange and mostly unjustified faith in people, while continuing to gracefully deal with an endless shitstorm – is one of the most inspiring displays of human quality I have ever seen. And i can only hope that the Cosmos is on his side.
“Strange and mostly unjustified faith in people.” Well, Blackwaterdog, he’s got you whether he would want you or not, but then that’s what your hoping isn’t it. It gives you gravitas. It gives you self importance.
It’s too bad you don’t give the utmost respect that the American people deserve, but you can’t because you think we’re stupid, as you are so much smarter to see us thus, in the true light that shines down just for you and President Obama.
That is sad.
If they did they don’t understand humans.
I'm pretty sure that the president-elect knew it better than anyone. After all, he saw it every day, from the moment he announced his candidacy. To some degree, he saw it within his own party during the primaries. And he saw it in all ugliness during the general election. For half of this country, he was "That One". No matter how big and clear his victory was. No matter how smart he is. No matter how decent he is. No matter what a true patriot he is. No matter how optimistic and positive his vision for America was. All that didn't matter. Because at the end of the day, he was still black.
Over half the voters voted for him and I can with the same veracity as Blackwaterdog that those that opposed his election did so because they opposed his platform and who he was, not his skin color.
I'm quite old. I remember, vaguely, where my parents been on November 22, 1963. I've seen so many presidents. Some were feared, some were hated, some were adored, some popular and some not. But all of them, without exception, were treated with the highest respect deserve to the office of the president of the United States.
Highest respect? What crap. Both Bushs, Reagan and Nixon come to mind as not only not getting the “highest respect”, but were denigrated at every chance by their opponents and the media.
That is until a black man won the right to occupy this office. It's been 13 months now, and in the eyes of so many, Barack Obama is still that one. He is being disrespected and at the same time being held to the highest standard of any president I've ever seen – and not just by the Republican side. He has to perform three times better than any president in history, and even that may not be enough.
He is disrespected because of his disdain for others, his policies and his failure to achieve or resolve the problems we face. He is disdained because he has an agenda which is completely out of touch with the majority of the electorate. Can you say jobs?
For the media, he is many more times just "Obama" than "President Obama". They create scandals out of nothing issues. It took them at least 6 years to start giving Bush a small part of the shit he deserved. It took them 6 months to begin crap all over Obama because he's yet to fix the catastrophe that was left for him.
Whether the majority liked Bush or not they saw that he was focused on their priorities. Love the “highest respect” ole Blackwaterdog is showing the office of the President of the United States.
They use condescending tone when they talk about him, and only mildly less condescending when they talk TO him. With anyone else, CNN wouldn't dare go to commercials every time the president speaks, like they did during that summit on Thursday. They wouldn't dare counting how many minutes George Bush or Bill Clinton were talking. Chris Mathews wouldn't dare making an issue out of Ronald Regan calling members of congress by their first name, like he is not actually the freaking president. They fully cooperate with the Right-Wing smear machine when it comes to president Obama's national security performance – even if almost every independent and military expert actually thinks that he's a terrific Commander in Chief. You'll never see them on TV, and virtually no one from the Left, in congress and outside, defend the president on this matter.
This paragraph is so incoherent in light of the facts there is nowhere to begin, but one question might be, do you remember whether Clinton wore boxers or briefs?
I don't care about the Far-Right. They're just crazy ignorant Neanderthals. It's the way the beltway and the mainstream treats this president that is shocking. On Thursday, almost every Republican had no trouble interrupting him in the middle of a sentence. They looked like they're going to vomit every time they had to say "Mr. president". They all had this Eric-Cantor-Smirk whenever he spoke. Then they went out and started to spit their stupid talking points, to the delight of the media. Sarah Palin, a woman who can hardly read, thinks that he was "arrogant" towards John McCain, and somehow this is an important news. Because you see, "Obama's Arrogance" is the talking point of the day.
“Obama’s arrogance”? People might think that because they didn’t think his put down of McCain very dignified or respectful of the office of the presidency. They thought him petulant. To continue your love for the dignity of elected office, I hear Sarah Palin reads quite well, but I wouldn’t want you to think that I would compare your level of achievement to Gov. Palin’s as a measure of intellect. I am amazed at your acuity in being able to see that Republicans looked as if to vomit. That’s amazing.
Oh, those talking points. He is arrogant (because he knows the facts better than all of them combined). He is an elitist (because he uses big words that they don't understand). He is weak on national security (because he actually thinks about the consequences). He divides the country (well, he did that the day he had the audacity to win the election). Worst of all, he actually thinks that he's the president. He even dared to say so on Thursday. How arrogant of him. You'd think that previous presidents didn't have any ego. Somehow it turned out that the one president who treats even his biggest opponents with the utmost respect – is the arrogant one. I wonder why.
Knows facts better? How do you know that? Uses words that Republicans don’t understand? I’m sure you know that as fact. National security? Most Republicans see that as his bright spot. He divides the country by his audacity? Yep, but not because of your racist card toss. He should think he is president? Yep, he was elected. He’s the one president who treat his biggest opponents with the utmost respect? That is such a stupid statement I am sure you’ll winch that you made it once your rant wears off, but you wonder why he might feel this way and you answer it for him in your silent cry of RACISM?
I expected that his winning the Presidency would bring out some ugliness, but it's been far worse than i imagined. The racism coming from the Right is obviously clear and shameless, but there's also some hidden and maybe subconscious and disturbing underline tone behind some of the things that I read here and throughout the Left blogosphere, even before the end of Obama's first year - 'He's weak, he's spineless, he's got no balls, primary him in 2012'. It'll be dishonest to deny that.
'He's weak, he's spineless, he's got no balls, primary him in 2012.' That’s not what I am hearing from Republicans (you said that racism was clear and shameless in Republicans) and nor am I hearing that from Democrats that I know, work with socialize with. I do hear it from Progressives that think he betrayed their hopes and dreams, so, take that up with them.
The fact is that for millions in America, Barack Obama is this uppity black man (Not even a "real" black), who received good education only due to affirmative action, and has no right to litter the sacred Oval Office with his skin color. They just can't accept the fact that the president is a black man, who unlike his predecessor, was actually legally elected. But what's really sad is that it's not just the fringe, its deep deep in mainstream America.
Blackwaterdog, this paragraph shows how unhinged and scattered your thinking is. “Uppity”, “affirmative action”, “litter” “actually legally elected” and “mainstream America”? You are “deep, deep" (ly) disassociated with mainstream America and this proves it. Unlike mainstream America you allow pure hatred and rage flow through you words and thoughts choosing to throw reality to the gutter as useless.
Barack Obama's ability to remain above all this slob, to keep his optimism and his strange and mostly unjustified faith in people, while continuing to gracefully deal with an endless shitstorm – is one of the most inspiring displays of human quality I have ever seen. And i can only hope that the Cosmos is on his side.
“Strange and mostly unjustified faith in people.” Well, Blackwaterdog, he’s got you whether he would want you or not, but then that’s what your hoping isn’t it. It gives you gravitas. It gives you self importance.
It’s too bad you don’t give the utmost respect that the American people deserve, but you can’t because you think we’re stupid, as you are so much smarter to see us thus, in the true light that shines down just for you and President Obama.
That is sad.
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